The Hoodie Man, Johan, and a Gladiator Fan

The Big Train: Now, if The Patriots go 19-0, does that make them the best team ever? Can you make the case that either the ’72 Dolphins or some of the Steel Curtain Steelers teams from the 1970s are better teams—or do the ’07-’08 Patriots take it hands down?

TalksSoFast: How can you not give it to the Pats? They have gone through   everyone-- the so-called other good teams in the league. The Cowboys, Colts, Chargers, Steelers and the their Superbowl Challengers.  I don't think it is a contest.

Urban Shocker: The fact that they broke the scoring record, passing TD record, receiving TD record all in the same year is a tremendous accomplishment. They have beaten 7 different playoff teams, the '72 dolphins opponents had like a .450 winning percentage. The Patriots also only lost 6 fumbles all year, 4 by Brady being hit on the blind side, one by Ellis Hobbs, and the one when the punt hit Troy Brown in the face……they protect the ball better than anyone…offensively they are perfect. The defense isn't the greatest, but it's pretty darn good and has yet to cost them a game……..they clearly have to be considered the best ever if they win the Super Bowl.

 

TalksSoFast: I think it will be a good Superbowl. The Giants are a lot better than people thought. If the field goal kicker didn't miss 3 field goals  before hitting the game winner it wouldn't have been as close at the end. The blame for the Packers' loss should go on Brett Favre's shoulders. He made stupid decisions at the end that cost them the game.

The Big Train: I agree that it will be a good Superbowl, but like before, I’m not willing to anoint the Patriots yet. The Giants were able to go up 12 on them before they came back, and I think San Diego’s defense really exposed what can be done to confuse Tom Brady. I’m also going to explicitly say that New England didn’t beat San Diego—SD beat themselves with 3 red zone possessions that didn’t result in Touchdowns. If they do, that’s at least 21 points.

I don’t see the Giants having the same problem—which resulted from Michael Turner and Darren Sproles being in the backfield—as opposed to a heavy dose of Tomlinson, offset by a bit of Michael Turner.

 

TalksSoFast: Big Train, you have no argument at all. It is actually pretty stupid that we are debating this. Even if the Pats lose the Super Bowl, You can still consider them the greatest team ever. Unfortunately the Super Bowl lost would sting.

The Big Train: Besides, aren’t you a Cowboys fan who should be deploring the overall commercialization of sports or some foolishness like that?

TalksSoFast: I am a huge Cowboys fan, but the Pats beat us too.

The Big Train: Well, at least you got to enjoy 13 games. As a Jets fan, I enjoyed none of them—partly because the Patriots never lost, and because we went 12-4...12 losses against 4 wins.

Can baseball come soon enough?

TalksSoFast: Do you really want baseball to come Big Train? Your Mets didn't exactly have a good year last year.

The Big Train: Omar’s in charge. Santana is on the way. Everything will be great for another year at Shea.

TalksSoFast: Santana will not be traded. It would have happened already if it was going to happen. I think the Tigers are the best team in baseball right now. They made some positive moves in the off-season.

The Big Train:  I disagree completely. The last chance for Minnesota to get real value for him is July 31st, and the teams able to offer the best packages which consist of young players that Minny can control long term (Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees) and likely to sign him would be employing those players as cornerstones of playoff runs. Right now, Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera can be replaced, but where to find a starting center fielder at the trading deadline if you’re the Yankees? Do you want to put Johnny Damon in that spot and wreck your defense? No.

If Ellsbury is as good as he’s billed (he might be, but I don’t see it yet), then he should be starting in center field for the Red Sox—and they have a similar problem. Do you then go back to Coco Crisp, who helped win a Championship—but as a subpar player at that position. Can you expect him to deliver again? Not likely since 2007 was the one year in quite some time where he did.

If you’re the Dodgers, and players such as Jonathan Broxton and Matt Kemp are already paying dividends, then why trade them? Again, do you have a viable replacement for the non-pitcher, and if they’re rapidly developing into big-time players, then why deal them?

The only team in it then is…that’s right…My New York Mets. Most of the guys we’d be trading are not major league players except Philip Humber, who can contribute on the mound right now. At this rate, why not get a hand on these guys now, have a chance to see them in Spring Training, maybe get some of them into games early in the season, and start building around Francisco Liriano and Scott Baker to contend from 2009 on?

Urban Shocker: Every time I see any report on Santana, I never hear about the Mets being really involved…..the Sox are always in the "lead", then it’s the Yanks.

Morneau just signed for 1 year 7.5 mil…..he'll be gone next year too.

Also explain to me how the Phillies are only offering Ryan Howard 7 mil a year and he's only asking for $10?????? He's cleary worth $18-20 mill a season.

The Big Train:You never read ESPN.com or Metsblog.com. That’s where the good stuff is.

I think Howard was getting paid $990,000 per year—I seem to remember seeing that when his contract was first renewed. I think there was some article about how he was hoping for a big raise, in part because he was driving an old pickup truck.

He’ll get it after this year, this will probably be a one-year deal at around $8-$8.5 million.

TalksSoFast: Can we stop talking baseball until after the Superbowl? I think the Pats will win but wouldn't be shocked if the G-Men won.

The Big Train: Urban, any views on the Pats and Giants?
 

Urban Shocker: I really don't see the Giants having a chance in this one. The Pats will be one game away from immortality with the whole world watching. They will come out flying like they did in the early part of the year, asthe conditions will be perfect with no weather to disrupt the passing game.  I see them scoring 40+ points….they got 38 last time they played the Giants.

Can Eli keep up on the biggest stage? I don’t think so, not this time.

The Big Train: The weather hasn’t disrupted the passing game. Wes Welker has caught plenty of passes! Doubling Moss has disrupted the big-play passing and the double team is something you’ll see for a while. The Giants play well on the road, they have done well this year in all of these underdog roles, and much of Eli Manning’s problems this season were related to the receivers more so than his decisions.

No Shockey—no problems. He has his own version of Alge Crumpler in Kevin Boss, and some of the other guys (Toomer, Burress, and even David Tryree) are playing much better. Finally, expect Ahmed Bradshaw to get more touches as a strong change-up to Brandon Jacobs, meaning that New York can run it down the Patriots throat more than even Willis McGahee did. The Jints win 41-38.

Urban Shocker: Put you're money where your mouth is Big Train…..I got 100 on the Pats if you want the Geeeeeeeeeeee-men!

The Jags had the best running game in the league and look where that got them.

The Big Train: But the Jags stopped running the ball when the playoffs started, and The Big Train avoids betting money on sports. Something about wearing a Tom Brady jersey around the cafe about a year ago…

Urban Shocker: You guys have to realize Belichick has two weeks to prepare for a team he's already faced this season--against Tom "My face has Frostbite" Coughlin.

The Giants will be overmatched this time.

The Big Train: I am not prepared to buy into the genius of Bill Belichick. As I intimated before, a lot of this is because they can get players such as Welker and Thomas thanks to the salary cap—plus they do have good scouting. Keep in mind, this genius was so bad in Cleveland that “the franchise folded up and left town.” So this game comes down to the Patriots ability to execute, and the Giants need to stick to the running game, double Randy Moss, and avoid the killer Interception.

41-38 NYG. As Howie Rose would say: “Put it in the books!”

Urban Shocker: I'm not prepared to buy into Eli Manning either, but apparently you are. If you truly are buying into manning, then how can you say that about Belichick?

He wasn't a good coach with Cleveland, but has developed into one of the best coaches ever. If you are on the Eli bandwagon, then he clearly sucked when he started and is now a good QB…….its the same comparison.

You're so big on this salary cap thing, because that allows them to get role players. How is that something you can criticize them for??? Because they handled the cap well, you look down on them??????

TalksSoFast: First, I am on the Eli Band Wagon. He beat very good teams on the road. He was poised and confident every game.

Isn't the Salary cap suppose to stop teams from building teams like the Patriots did? The Patriots have built a franchise where players are willing to take a pay cut to play, and are willing to behave themselves. If anything, the Pats are better than the '72 Dolphins for this. Did the '72 Dolphins have a salary cap?

Urban Shocker: Its not like they have a bunch of superstars either. To quote that donkey on the Chargers who ripped into Richard Seymour: "They have 10 good players on that team." The Pats have 2 superstars and only a few other stars. They all just play perfect together in a system created by Belichick.

Big Train, you're salary cap argument is foolish!

The Big Train: No. The Salary Cap gives teams access to players by abrogating the financial advantage which big spenders have over lesser spenders. So, most teams could build a one- or two-year winner, but not a Yankees-style dynasty. That also means good, developed players are constantly available, as opposed to the need to spend large amounts to obtain them and the cycles of available talent that come in a non-salary cap environment. Add to that the fact the Dolphins owner at the time, Joe Robbie, was not very wealthy and later had Larry Csonka signed away by a new football league, in part because of his inability/unwillingness to pay.

Also, you’ll note that I didn’t put my faith in Eli Manning to win the game—just to contribute as part of a team anchored by the run and the good defensive play demonstrated by the Giants after the second game of the season.

Urban is saying New England is a sure bet because the Hoodie Man has the advantage of seeing the Jints again and having two weeks to prepare.

A stark difference.